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Post by shardelay on Jan 18, 2012 22:29:16 GMT
My thoughts on a few of these and some more insight into how I consider these issues and what convinces me (And remember, i'm just one person on the team - and I do not have any final authority) - the resulting widespread advice is now for newer players to solo farm LL runs, then buy, instead of trying to earn BUR books by partying. Consequences? I think that's poor advice. I say find a good build on the forums in a subrace you have access too, get it to 60, gear it in the best UR's you can and then do every possible hell run you can get on regardless of tagging or no. You'll get gear/cash FAR FAR faster than farming LL areas solo. Farming LL areas is great if you don't have a hell run to go on, aren't tagged or of a level to do hells+, need a specific item, or simply enjoy them. - since players have never built 5 or 6 different classes of UR sub end-game toons, new players will now spend much longer with fewer end-game classes. Consequences to run formation? Factually incorrect. Many players have built 5-6+ non BUR classes and demi'd them. I know I have. Many i've upgraded after I demi'd them, but at least 1 is still an illithid. - shifts in server player demographics (e.g. no more BUR book demand from vets) indicate a lower price for BUR books, not a higher price. If anything, arguing that there is LESS demand would mean we should have LESS supply... assuming equilibrium is your goal here. This isn't what you want. - BUR books are now disproportionately valuable compared to UR books, feeding/supporting the perception (right or wrong) that they are way, way more valuable. e.g. who wants to use a 10 million gold subby when others are using 1000 million gold subby. A linear increase in rarity does not necessitate a linear increase in price. In fact, it usually implies an exponential increase in price. Check out the price of diamonds based on carat size as a real world example. www.diamondhelpers.com/fivesteps/4-diamond-prices-ctwt.shtml Or, think about the price of art or other exceedingly rare goods. I would expect rarity to increase market price exponentially in many situations. - BUR books are "Beyond Ultra Rare", just as other BURs are "Beyond Ultra Rare". Why impose a higher price only on BUR books? Should players not "earn" other BURs? - BUR books are consumable, unlike regular BURs. Other threads go over this topic ad naseum. They are consumable, but they then are applicable to every toon on the account and are infinte use after consumed, but are no longer tradeable and also confer benefits FAR greater than any piece of BUR gear. You can't make a 1 to 1 comparison. Not all BUR's are created equal. Non-equal items shouldn't necessarily attempt to find parity. Variety is the spice of life. - If the drop rate reduction ends up acting as a deterrent to some new players progressing to the end game, then the policy becomes a catastrophic self-defeating failure. Hyperbolic at best and you are assuming a conclusion and then using that assumed conclusion to argue against the premise. HOWEVER, this is pointed in the right direction, but to make this argument you have to first determine what an appropriate price (remember price is ultimately spent in player hours) a BUR book should be, and then you need to compare the current price vs that appropriate price. Then, you can make the argument that players will see the price is to high and leave due to that (though realize that BUR books alone won't kill the server, it's hundreds of similiar choices all going south that would do it). - Please try reading jazzadellic's comments Tried... and succeeded! I managed to read them! (note, I don't post unless I read every post on a thread) (right above this post) from the view of a new player, recognizing what they can be faced with. Those comments are aimed at a group of new player who by all accounts are doing everything that they can to become productive, long term end-game players. This one is well understood and i sympathize. However, in this case, I firmly believe the fault lies with the playerbase here. We act and play and post as though only BUR subs will do. That is patently absurd. The new players here form their views of the value of a BUR subrace (somethign that they didnt even know existed before they play here) via their exposure to older players. We have informed their view poorly. Solving this problem by making BUR's more attainable would only serve to reinforce this. Are those players quitting becaue they can't readily get an abyssal lord tag and benefit? No. Why not? Because the community doesn't pretend that you need an abyssal lord tag to be a valuable team-mate. I may have shot all your points down, but don't assume I believe the drop rate is correct. When I play, it FEELS like the drop rate is too low, but that's not a good reason to make a change. If I wanted to change the drop rate on BUR books and felt strongly, I would attempt to quantify how rare it should be and why and go from there. Since this thread is a bajillion pages long, I'll quickly go through the thought exercise anyway. I'd start by determining how quickly I want BUR books to enter the game based on how fast it would obviate UR's (since I think it's valuable to have UR's and secret and open subs playing all the time I dont want them obviated). What's the population of the server, how often do tia-nessus runs get done, how many tia-nes runners do i think should graduate to BUR's each week/month etc... and then back that out to how many tia-ness cycles (or fractions of ) it should take for 1 person to get 1 bur etc... etc... etc... Realistically, it wont be this regimented, but that's the general idea. More pragmatically, I think that once I've run tia-nessus 2 times I have reasonably been able to say I've conquered hells once. I know the maps. I know the spawns. I know the role of my toon and the general roles of other players. I know what kills machines, what can KD me and instakill the party, what paragons are, and how Asmo's form's work. I still have alot to learn about playing other classes, but the toon that I've got now has double demi stat points and is on its way towards removing hell pens. It now feels to me that I have BEGUN to finish hells on a given toon. That's the point at which I would like to have a player have access to a upgraded subrace. So that means roughly 2 trips tia-nessus + however many non-taggin runs they did on the way. To get 1 BUR sub that means 10 BUR subs need to have dropped, which means 5 per tia-nessus which on average is 1 every 2 maps (if you never did another run which is wrong) (though that's skewed to fewer on lower layers and more on higher). So figure somethign like 1 per 5 or 6 low level runs, and 1 on most cania/nessus's. I don't really care that you need more runs to get the SPECIFIC bur sub you want. We want to encourage trading adn we have a good auction system now, so I'm happy to allow that component of the game to drive getting the specific bur sub. Also, I like the idea that I might get a bur sub that engenders interest in my building a NEW toon and playing the entire game over agian, rather than just reinc'ing an old toon because new toons are double good for the server (keeps you going and keeps old content valuable) where reinc'ing only does half of that. Now from that point anyone can argue my premises of 2 trips, or number of non-tag runs etc... and adjust the end conclusion according. This is a point to buid la discussion from as opposed to much of this thread and the others like it. Most of the arguments in this thread boiled down to "I want BUR's cause someone else has em and they rock". Those arguments aren't compelling. They are embarrassing.
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Post by Werehound Silverfang on Jan 18, 2012 23:15:24 GMT
Perhaps the same thing needs be done with UR books as has been done for BUR books, make them one drop. Just another point, people will buy multiple BUR items for use across many toons, but you need only buy one BUR book for use across many toons.
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Post by uncanny on Jan 18, 2012 23:51:43 GMT
Perhaps the same thing needs be done with UR books as has been done for BUR books, make them one drop. Just another point, people will buy multiple BUR items for use across many toons, but you need only buy one BUR book for use across many toons. I know where you're coming from Were, but I can't find a way to agree. If you find, say, a Scintilating Scarf vs a Hound: 1) You can use the Scarf on multiple toons, but you don't need to recreate a toon to use it. Hound vs, say, a UR race you do. 2) You can use the scarf for a few weeks, then trade it when you either find something better, or sell it if you need gold. Not at all possible once you use a race. 3) If you have multiple cd-keys, as many seem to have for whatever purpose; you can move the scarf around by handing it between key accounts. But you can use the book on only one account. As a consumable, a race book is only valuable while it is not used; in contrast with BUR kit, since you can use it and it doesn't reduce in value by being used. Use the race book even once and it's locked and no longer worth anything to anyone else.
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Post by Enius the White on Jan 19, 2012 0:16:57 GMT
Shardelay, to avoid a convoluted over-quoted post I'll just say that for various reasons (e.g. like me, you likely built your UR toons before there were BUR races), I stand by my analysis, and we can just agree to disagree on the particulars that you take issue with. They appear to be moot anyway, since we agree on the crux of the matter, when you state: "When I play, it FEELS like the drop rate is too low". You just can't figure out why, having in your mind "shot all (my) points down", thus clearly missing the points.
So now that we agree that "the drop rate is too low" (me for the reasons stated, and you for some other "feeling" that you have not figured out yet), let's take a look at the metric that you suggest for determining the proper drop rate. You state that a new player should have access to a BUR subby once they "have reasonably been able to say I've conquered hells". Then what? They've "conquered the hells" with an Open- UR subby, and now they get a BUR subby that in your words "confer(s) benefits FAR greater than any piece of BUR gear". What happens to your "earn it" directive now? Surely with this upgrade (+ double demi stats, + asmo arti, - 1x penalties), another run or 5 through the end game is now trivial for the conqueror?
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Post by madzapper on Jan 19, 2012 0:55:10 GMT
Now from that point anyone can argue my premises of 2 trips, or number of non-tag runs etc... and adjust the end conclusion according. I disagree from the standpoint that the person making the argument needs to know much more information about the player-base to make those kind of arguments and therefore "anyone" is really reduced to "those-that-have-access-to-the-information". How often people play, what kind of toons they have (and have deleted), how frequently each player plays the different areas, the retention in player-base, how many toons are currently tagged with each type of subrace, etc, etc, etc. All things similar to what you are pointing out. As players we don't REALLY have access to that kind of information outside of guesswork. Well, I suppose someone could if they abused the system. No one here is going to do that, I would guess. Basically the only thing in this realm that I can think of that players can really argue is that IF you (you being the dev team) want to keep the drop rate the same for each book (i.e. HC drops as frequently as it did when there were fewer books and all BUR subrace books were considered as 1 BUR), then the additional books are changing the chance of a specific book appearing. But then that's already been pointed out, and you've pretty much argued that it's irrelevant because there is a system for trading, so not much to say there. Well, I guess I am a little embarrassed, but only a little. I do feel slightly less ignorant now, but I am still consumed with this concept that players have natural incentives to build toons based on the tools and items that are available on the server and that it "feels" like that still somehow ties into this and shouldn't be completely dismissed (not that you are saying to dismiss it 'cause I'm pretty sure you didn't). All of my griping and bitching aside, I love the dev team here. You all are fantastic. Cheers and thanks for all the hard work, Madzapper
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2012 4:37:30 GMT
So the current plan is to increase XR drops massively for the first few weeks of EE's so that all the current half-celestials can stockpile all the new XR subbies, and then drop the rate once the peasants enter EE's so everyone can laugh at the poor BUR builds and drag them!! Joking aside, here are a few insights (via a server balancing perspective) from the viewpoint from someone who takes part in the balance discussions with the rest of the admin team. The goal of much of the balancing is the health of the server. Assuming that gameplay itself is fun, I believe in 2 very important parts of keeping players intersted in an MMORPG (or NWN persistent world) and encouraging long-term retention. 1) Keeping goals for players - this means always having a better item/tag/subrace/accomplishment to reach for. i.e. "maxing" a toon is a very difficult and long process. Carrots taste good. 2) Keeping all parts of the mod as relavant and playable as possible to both optimize dev time (by not forcing massive periodic content releases) and keep lower level game play active for new players to join and become engaged with. Old carrots are still nourishing. There is alot more to it than those 2 points, but they cover the meat of it. # 1 is vital because once someone has a maxed character, they have "won" the mod and they loose interest and will likely quit. This is, by definition, bad for player retention and must be fought at all costs. Randomized loot, Legendary and soon paragon levels, BUR subrace rarity, artifacts, demi itterations, and tag bonus's are some of the ways we make maxing a toon difficult. Making BUR toons truely rare is one of the carrots that helps with this (although for a long time that carrot was broken. The same carrot eventually get's stale when you keep eating it over and over again due to oversupply.) One of the ways we encourage people to keep the entire mod relavant (#2) is via our class balancing. Getting the balance correct means that there are MANY different builds that are all viable and different, giving a completely different gaming experience. This helps us with both the above stated goals. It takes the "maxed out" character and gives it an entire other itteration of the game to play. And, while playing that new character, it rejuvinates the lower level game play and keeps the mod more populated for new players. Considernig that building MANY toons is a vital part of our game outlook, there is not much of a problem with leveling a open or UR toon to get a BUR sub and then makign a NEW toon with that bur sub and playing both of them. This fits nicely wtih stated goals 1 and 2. I'll add to the above a FACT that many on this thread seem to be attempting to argue as an opinion. An open subrace toon (and therefore secret, and UR) can all perform perfectly fine in the hells. A UR is not as good as a BUR by approx 2 stat pts and 1 feat (though that varies considerably depending on the subrace comparisons). These are FACTS. As an absolute FACT hells were conquered in a more difficult form, w/out BUR subs, w/out +14 gear, w/out ego dc modding items, w/out any demi itterations, w/out pom/uro/etc... gear, and w/out randomized up loot. I personally have demi'd open, secret, and UR subs. (arctic dwarf tin can, Illithid PM, Dragonblooded STr BFM, and Lycan rogue) before +14s, before +dc items, with no demi itterations, etc... My pm is still an illithid and rdy for nessus again. I'll happily run him w/out fear of being dragged in any nessus run. Because of the FACT that an open/secret/UR sub toon can demi w/out being drug and can participate, we have the situation where a new player, with a new toon, has the ability to acquire BUR books and demi iterations and then use that BUR book to build a new character. This satisfies goals 1 and 2. Some perspective on reinc - Reinc is NOT a tool for upgrading subraces. Reinc exists purely as an acknowledgement that as the server changes class balance and skills, time spent leveling a character can turn out to have been ill spent due to reasons beyond a players control. i.e. they got nerfed. Reinc is a tool to allow the players to reclaim time spent on a toon that was nerfed. Subrace upgrades were a solution to a potential exploit and a bonus given to players at the time. I like the bonus and i would argue to keep it, but I can see solid arguments that reinc should never allow a subraces upgrade to begin with. The issue from this thread is one that is well understood and the question is not new. Is rarity tuned correctly? If the argument is that it is too rare, then one needs to convince from a game balance point of view that is the case. The arguments that I see failing are: 1) I can't get a starter BUR. Bogus - BUR's are tasty frosted carrots. You want a starter bur? Tough. 2) I can't participate in runs w/out a BUR. Bogus - It is a documentable FACT that non-BUR subs can participate and be valuable in a run. I have done it myself and I have parsed many individuals. I agree with other's comments about skill and build, I'd FAR prefer to have a good player with a good build on an open or UR sub, than a bad player and a poor build on a BUR. IT'S NOT EVEN CLOSE. 3) We are bifurcating the community into a population of haves versus have nots. Bogus - Haves vs have nots is exactly what is required for point #1 of balance. If time spent doesn't equate to more rewards then less time becomes more rewards and therefore max'd toons can be obtained quickly and therefore people will quit. Have vs have not as a function of PLAYTIME is necessary for server health. 4) It was broken for a while, and that gives an unfair advantage to older players, so we must leave it here. Bogus- that's a short path to server death and an artificial handcuff on the world builders. We can wish that we had made a correction SOONER and we can wish that the problem was less pronounced, but any solution that involves ignoring the problem just makes it worse and is poor policy. Mistakes must be corrected, regardless of how long they have persisted. Yes, it's a bummer, but it's not a game ending bummer. Potentially good arguments are: 1) All the above is well and good, but 1 BUR sub per n hours is just simply too rare as a comparison to EGO items, Demi itterations, planewalker rings, and other items if similiar power. - OK, talk to me here. I can listen to this. Rarity does NOT need to move in a nice smooth function relative to power, but it should be sensible. My gut is that this might be a little low right now, but that XR subs and EE's and Paragon levels will likely help and that therefore no chagnes should be made til we can see that effect. I also fundamentally like the idea of obscenely rare things that most people will NOT get (not that BUR subs fit this category), so principly rarity i do not see as a bad thing as long as there aer other less rare carrots. (I don't need the mithril alloy carrot to keep me well fed when I have 14 tiers of iron carrot left to consume). I hope anyone who wants to contribute to this discussion has read this, because w/out understanding these principles and incorporating them into your suggestions, these theads, while entertaining, won't have the impact to engender any change and will only piss people off. That is a long reasoned response that would serve the concerned parties well to read and think about and not just skim over and reflexively respond. As Raj pointed out, no BUR sub is going to do for a character what demi iterations will do. Facilitate hells tagging (making demi less "rare" but no easier to accomplish) and the result should be effectively reducing the perceived power gap. This isn't a plug for the the other thread, but really all of this stuff is connected and the key concern for all is player progression. A possible solution is to make certain BURs non-random for specific high-level runs. Making a top-tier (Koly, HC, RG, Genie) drop on certain high level runs with about the same frequency as the arti drops at rona (is she gonna blow? ) would 1. Increase the frequency those runs are done 2. Dramatically decrease the true rarity of BUR sub drops without making it "too easy" to get one. Example: from Dis to Cania there would be a 1 in 7 chance that a top-tier bur sub would drop as boss loot each time one of these runs is done. Even if one dropped there would be a one in 7 chance of getting it. A requirement could be that said book would have zero chance of dropping if party was less than 7.
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Post by Lythe Featherblade on Jan 19, 2012 5:11:32 GMT
Perhaps UR races would be a little more sought after if you could use specific ones to upgrade a char to a BUR subrace (provided you have that initial BUR subrace book). For instance, if a fallen angel could upgrade to Half-Celesital without needing a 2nd BUR book (and with little and no other cost) then people might be more inclined to seek out fallen angel. Same with Yukio and Erinyes, doppleganger and anarch, just as quick examples.
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Post by redbeard on Jan 19, 2012 5:31:41 GMT
m3chladon,
If you've been running Hades as much as you say you have, then you know a lot about the hells spawns, and you know you can kill them. That's pretty good evidence you wouldn't be dragged.
What will probably make you feel like you're being dragged is everyone knowing where the next spawn is and what it is and how to kill it already. Oh yeah, and what the map looks like. Some hell runs move so fast you'd think they were level 10s going after the water ring.
They also know what role they play in the larger (usually) 10 man party. That's another learning curve thing that can only be fixed by running hell.
Unless you've been running around in GS and only attacking the easy mobs, or funding Zerial's retirement plan, I think your characters are ready for hell without being drug.
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Post by m3chladon on Jan 19, 2012 6:09:18 GMT
m3chladon, If you've been running Hades as much as you say you have, then you know a lot about the hells spawns, and you know you can kill them. That's pretty good evidence you wouldn't be dragged. What will probably make you feel like you're being dragged is everyone knowing where the next spawn is and what it is and how to kill it already. Oh yeah, and what the map looks like. Some hell runs move so fast you'd think they were level 10s going after the water ring. They also know what role they play in the larger (usually) 10 man party. That's another learning curve thing that can only be fixed by running hell. Unless you've been running around in GS and only attacking the easy mobs, or funding Zerial's retirement plan, I think your characters are ready for hell without being drug. We have the bur subraces we have been farming for now, honestly its the only reason we stayed in Hades. My bard is being made now, my druid is setup for Tia waiting on Dis, and my brother and dad are making clerics. Bards seem to be the most sought after anyways, I've played on a 60 caster bard they are super fun imo looking forward to running mine. Gonna do Vichyas Ministrel of the Planes build first and probably a Divine Ministrel later. We are moving on to hell runs now, you should see us soon calling more runs
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Post by Werehound Silverfang on Jan 19, 2012 7:31:08 GMT
We are moving on to hell runs now, you should see us soon calling more runs Um, Like button?
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Post by shardelay on Jan 19, 2012 14:07:00 GMT
since we agree on the crux of the matter, when you state: "When I play, it FEELS like the drop rate is too low". You just can't figure out why, having in your mind "shot all (my) points down", thus clearly missing the points. Don't trust your feelings Luke. Embrace the Dark Side. Go for a more rigorous approach. Which point did i clearly miss? The point that I'm trying to make here, is that reasoned approaches, not gut feelings, inform the building of a world. Gut feelings are a great place to BEGIN investigations, but they are not solutions or ends. If I sent my developers (at the office not here in the game) to town working on my gut feelings for quoting algorithms and trading strategies w/out first analyzing them with the quant teams, i'd be wasting huge amounts of developer time. The same applies here, except we have FAR fewer resources to waste and we pay them far less. Declaring that we know, when we only suspect is a mistake that people make (myself included) all the time. In my work I've found that I am far more successful if I make a concerted effort to clearly understand when I am expressing a fact versus an opinion and NOT to act solely upon opinions, or disseminate them as facts. I've waxed a bit philosophical here, but spend a day listening to what everyone tells you and try to estimate how much is either BS or assumption versus knowledge and fact. It's shocking. You state that a new player should have access to a BUR subby once they "have reasonably been able to say I've conquered hells". Then what? They've "conquered the hells" with an Open- UR subby, and now they get a BUR subby that in your words "confer(s) benefits FAR greater than any piece of BUR gear". What happens to your "earn it" directive now? Ely, Abo, getting 5x to remove hells pens, 7x to max the tag, learning abyss maps and mobs, 5 abyssal lords, refinining your gear, finally getting that planewalker-anti-kb ring-parry armor-ego item-special class loot-etc..., level 80, and most importantly, buildign a new character or 27. Oh yah, and playing with the friends you made along the way to help them achieve these things. This persistent world persists, despite my wife's best intentions! I know where you're coming from Were, but I can't find a way to agree. If you find, say, a Scintilating Scarf vs a Hound: 1) You can use the Scarf on multiple toons, but you don't need to recreate a toon to use it. Hound vs, say, a UR race you do. 2) You can use the scarf for a few weeks, then trade it when you either find something better, or sell it if you need gold. Not at all possible once you use a race. 3) If you have multiple cd-keys, as many seem to have for whatever purpose; you can move the scarf around by handing it between key accounts. But you can use the book on only one account. As a consumable, a race book is only valuable while it is not used; in contrast with BUR kit, since you can use it and it doesn't reduce in value by being used. Use the race book even once and it's locked and no longer worth anything to anyone else. I totally agree that BUR books are completely different than BUR items. They are used differently, they have wierd use situations, some people want them more than others. Therefore, I conclude that arguments about BUR book rarity cannot be based on current BUR gear rarity. Apples and oranges. Now from that point anyone can argue my premises of 2 trips, or number of non-tag runs etc... and adjust the end conclusion according. I disagree from the standpoint that the person making the argument needs to know much more information about the player-base to make those kind of arguments and therefore "anyone" is really reduced to "those-that-have-access-to-the-information". Nonetheless, we need to make informed decisions. Use the information you have and make clear your assumptions about the facts you are missing. If you are clear about what is an assumption, and your logic is stated clearly and reasonably, then anyone with better info can adjust the assumption and using your same logic you can both conclude something new and - shocker - agree on the conclusion (and if you dont then you disagree upon either the assumptions or the logical path which lets you have real debate rather than just conclusion bashing). A possible solution is to make certain BURs non-random for specific high-level runs. Making a top-tier (Koly, HC, RG, Genie) drop on certain high level runs with about the same frequency as the arti drops at rona (is she gonna blow? ) would 1. Increase the frequency those runs are done 2. Dramatically decrease the true rarity of BUR sub drops without making it "too easy" to get one. You jumped to a solution to a problem you didnt justify. You are implicitly saying that BUR subs are too rare and proposing a way to change that. To convince the dev team to make a change to occur you need to do 2 things. Show that there is a problem and then propose a solution to that selfsame problem. You skipped to the solution part. And the solution part, frankly, is easy. We could just increase the bur book drop rate.
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Post by shardelay on Jan 19, 2012 14:08:15 GMT
We are moving on to hell runs now, you should see us soon calling more runs Look me up if you're on evenings EST time zone on an evening i'm around. I've got a toon ready for most layers and would love to help introduce you to hells.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2012 17:01:44 GMT
You jumped to a solution to a problem you didnt justify. You are implicitly saying that BUR subs are too rare and proposing a way to change that. To convince the dev team to make a change to occur you need to do 2 things. Show that there is a problem and then propose a solution to that selfsame problem. You skipped to the solution part. And the solution part, frankly, is easy. We could just increase the bur book drop rate. Well player perception IS obviously a problem, if the poll here and majority opinion serves as any kind of justification. The most interesting thing (to me) about objective facts as regards any kind or organized group human interaction is just how much the majority perception affects the outcome of the group interaction and the organization its self. It is one of those odd things about society and economics, that is easy to dismiss in an academic way as "intangible and thus irrelevant", yet its true relevance outweighs almost any other single factor. Perception as a phenomenon is FACT, even if the content of said perception is not. How much of a problem the perception that BUR sub drops are exceedingly rare is really up to the dev team to quantify. If retention of newer and part time players is at all a goal of the dev team then the fact of this group-perception needs to be dealt with. My points were simply suggestions how this might be dealt with, without disrupting the balance of the game too much.
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Post by shardelay on Jan 19, 2012 22:19:49 GMT
Well player perception IS obviously a problem, if the poll here and majority opinion serves as any kind of justification. It is not a problem. It is obviously something that people are posting alot on, but I can't draw any further conclusions than that from the solitary fact that alot of people post that they want better loot. There is no evidence to say it is a problem right now. It is a staple of online forums and MMORPG's. It's a negative sampling bias lumped on top of an abstracted communication layer. I.e. ppl who are pissed post alot more than people who are happy, and on the internet it's EASY to say outrageous things because noone will smack you in the face (to be clear, im NOT suggesting you are being outrageous here or that you need a whooping! To the contrary you've been quite civil!) The most interesting thing (to me) about objective facts as regards any kind or organized group human interaction is just how much the majority perception affects the outcome of the group interaction and the organization its self. It is one of those odd things about society and economics, that is easy to dismiss in an academic way as "intangible and thus irrelevant", yet its true relevance outweighs almost any other single factor. Perception as a phenomenon is FACT, even if the content of said perception is not. How much of a problem the perception that BUR sub drops are exceedingly rare is really up to the dev team to quantify. If retention of newer and part time players is at all a goal of the dev team then the fact of this group-perception needs to be dealt with. My points were simply suggestions how this might be dealt with, without disrupting the balance of the game too much. Player perception as expressed on the message boards is miles away from action as expressed in game hours played - and game hours played is what matters for server health. Sure the msg boards have a sort of feedback loop there, but it is FAR FAR FAR smaller than it feels. We who post alot on the boards get easily caught up in that, forgetting that the real game is a login away. In your years here, how often have you seen dev cater to the whims of player perception? BFM nerfs? Randomized loot? Ruby rod changes? LT nerfs? If things were done differently, the server would have died years ago.
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Post by chirality on Jan 19, 2012 23:44:34 GMT
Perhaps the same thing needs be done with UR books as has been done for BUR books, make them one drop. Actually, I agree--in fact I think making UR books less ubiquitous than they are at the moment (based on my experience and what I've read here and there seems like everyone is seeing a ton of UR books lately) would actually help improve the perception that BUR books aren't dropping frequently enough. I won't say "it's human nature" but at least for me when one thing is in abundance and the other thing "suddenly" has decreased supply it becomes much more noticeable when you're staring at a Armoire-full of the abundant lesser-valuable things every split. But regardless of the BUR situation, I do think that UR books seem to be everywhere "recently". I hate to bring up another Hades farming anecdote but, for instance in Oinos UR books are probably the most common UR I see, period, excepting maybe another consumable like Draughts or something--I dunno if they're R or UR or what, Power Orbs, stuff like that. Trap kits and UR books and Draughts...welcome to Hades!
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