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Post by FunkySwerve on Jun 14, 2011 5:57:46 GMT
Just so you know, work on the promised update is still ongoing. It fixes many longstanding bugs, updates journal information, and rebalances bard song.
The bard song edit rebalances song as follows:
Lvl AB Dam W F R HP AC Skill
1 1 1 - - - - - -
2 1 1 1 - - - - -
3 1 2 1 1 - - - -
4 1 2 1 1 - - - -
5 1 2 1 1 - - - -
6 1 2 1 1 1 - - 1
7 1 2 1 1 1 - 1 1
8 1 2 1 1 1 8 1 1
9 1 2 1 1 1 8 1 2
10 1 2 1 1 1 8 1 2
Lvl AB Dam W F R HP AC Skill
11 1 2 2 1 1 8 1 2
12 1 3 2 1 1 8 1 3
13 1 3 2 1 1 8 1 3
14 1 3 2 1 1 16 1 3
15 1 3 2 1 1 16 1 4
16 1 3 2 1 1 20 1 4
17 1 3 2 1 1 22 1 4
18 1 3 2 1 1 24 1 5
19 1 3 2 1 1 26 1 5
20 1 3 2 1 1 28 1 5
Lvl AB Dam W F R HP AC Skill
21 2 4 2 2 2 30 1 6
22 2 4 2 2 2 32 1 6
23 2 4 2 2 2 34 1 6
24 2 4 2 2 2 36 1 7
25 2 4 2 2 2 38 2 7
26 2 4 2 2 2 40 2 7
27 2 4 3 2 2 42 2 8
28 2 4 3 2 2 44 2 8
29 2 4 3 2 2 46 2 8
30 2 5 3 2 2 48 2 9
Lvl AB Dam W F R HP AC Skill
31 2 5 3 2 2 50 2 9
32 2 5 3 2 2 52 2 9
33 2 5 3 2 2 54 2 10
34 2 5 3 2 2 56 2 10
35 2 5 3 2 2 58 2 10
36 2 5 3 2 2 60 2 11
37 2 5 3 2 2 62 2 11
38 2 5 3 2 2 64 2 11
39 2 6 3 2 2 66 2 12
40 2 6 3 2 2 68 2 12
Lvl AB Dam W F R HP AC Skill
41 3 6 3 2 2 70 2 12
42 3 6 3 3 3 72 2 13
43 3 6 4 3 3 74 2 13
44 3 6 4 3 3 76 3 13
45 3 6 4 3 3 78 3 14
46 3 6 4 3 3 80 3 14
47 3 6 4 3 3 82 3 14
48 3 7 4 3 3 84 3 15
49 3 7 4 3 3 86 3 15
50 3 7 4 3 3 88 3 15
Lvl AB Dam W F R HP AC Skill
51 3 7 4 3 3 90 3 16
52 3 7 4 3 3 92 3 16
53 3 7 4 3 3 94 3 16
54 3 7 4 3 3 96 3 17
55 3 7 4 3 3 98 3 17
56 3 7 4 3 3 100 3 18
57 3 8 4 3 3 102 3 18
58 3 8 4 3 3 104 3 19
59 3 8 5 3 3 106 3 19
60 3 8 5 3 3 108 3 20
Lvl AB Dam W F R HP AC Skill
61 4 8 5 3 3 110 3 20
62 4 8 5 3 4 112 3 20
63 4 8 5 4 4 114 4 21
It affects EVERYTHING that utilizes song, be it bard or curse - items, shifter harpy, NPC bards, and so on.
That means that several max bard song values will be considerably lower:
-max ac reduced by 4 from 8
-max ab reduced by 3 from 7
-max saves reduced by 3 from 8/7/7
To offset this reduction, monster statting is being mass nerfed, in all legendary areas, as follows:
-monster ab dropped by 5
-monster ac dropped by 7
-monster dc unchanged
-monster saves reduced by 3/3/3
Stats in a few select pre-legendary areas will be reduced by around 2/3 of those amounts, though most will remain unchanged.
One goal here are to make party formation easier, by reducing reliance on bards. Another is to make soloing easier.
Also coming is an edit to reduce shunt immunity, as well as hostile environment vulnerabilities.
Funky
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Post by Torin on Jun 14, 2011 10:46:01 GMT
Not sure if you want comments/suggestions to the planned update. Sorry in advance if not.
For the bards: I suggest that the bard is buffed him/her self with 2 times stronger bardsong than the group members. As a result, nothing changes for them personally and don't nerf them so hard.
(and still would love to see EMA for bards to make them more par to druids and clerics, but that is another story).
Soloers: I always had the feeling that soloplay is tolerated but not intended. To make soloplay more possible, these situations should made possible for soloers:
- Lolth: 2 levers to pull
- Toyshop: Pull lever while on bridge
- Hive: Falling trough floor should not despawn and break the run.
- Pyramid: 2 levers again
- Tia...
Maybe an item "Magic Hand" (only usable if alone) that could be used to pull levers far away?
Bugs: Your lowbee quests become very popular, if the last bugs of them could be fixed that would be nice. I'll continue betatest them then.
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Post by uncanny on Jun 14, 2011 11:33:17 GMT
Soloers: I always had the feeling that soloplay is tolerated but not intended. To make soloplay more possible, these situations should made possible for soloers: - Lolth: 2 levers to pull - Toyshop: Pull lever while on bridge - Hive: Falling trough floor should not despawn and break the run. - Pyramid: 2 levers again - Tia... Maybe an item "Magic Hand" (only usable if alone) that could be used to pull levers far away? I think that this was more part of HG when the servers were groaning under the weight of players. Currently, we're somewhat light on players at most timezones, though some timezones seem to have a handful it's nothing like it once was. So.. I for one welcome this move. It means a few things: - New kind of Iron Man contest might arise: the solo Llolth, immo, DB, etc.
- Newer players can get stuck in without hoping a group somewhere is at their levels. Even with the proxy situation, I've had plenty of times where I had to temporarily abandon a new toon because nobody at the level was playing, or if they were then they were -HC-
- Players that don't have anything to do don't need to log out in disgust. They can choose a solo area that is actually doable and worth XP.
I do have a question though.. wizards at the lower to mid legendary are very hard to get going. Cutting through SP is near impossible in popular areas (yea I know, eyes rolling, bear with me). Is there any plan to improve this in the near future (even if only for solo situations)? |
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Post by chainlink on Jun 14, 2011 12:49:34 GMT
Soloing the immo (and to a lesser extent Llolth) is a complete game of chance due to the insane amount of greater ruins thet get spammed at you, I think my fighter on a HC immo the other day took the full force of about 20 of them. Sooner or later you're going to roll a 1 and get sausaged.
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Post by fallenwizard on Jun 14, 2011 14:54:52 GMT
Soloing the immo (and to a lesser extent Llolth) is a complete game of chance due to the insane amount of greater ruins thet get spammed at you, I think my fighter on a HC immo the other day took the full force of about 20 of them. Sooner or later you're going to roll a 1 and get sausaged. those are the cases you carry few rebirthstones with you  |
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Post by gandoron on Jun 14, 2011 16:03:28 GMT
Battletide now drops saves more than bard song. Battletide does +/- 5 (4 with splash) for saves, etc. Howestly, I think this could probably be reduced by at least 1 not to make it so "must have".
With Prayer at least their are other ways to have the same effect Wail of Doom, Eyebite.
Battletide is impossible to replace except with Prince vestige helm.
-G
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jun 14, 2011 16:33:33 GMT
Battletide now drops saves more than bard song. Battletide does +/- 5 (4 with splash) for saves, etc. Howestly, I think this could probably be reduced by at least 1 not to make it so "must have". With Prayer at least their are other ways to have the same effect Wail of Doom, Eyebite. Battletide is impossible to replace except with Prince vestige helm. -G Aye, we're going to reexamine a couple of the larger save/ac/ab etc dropping effects. Suggestions for others to look at would be most welcome, as I'm a bit rusty. The nice thing about this update is that, once the script is set up to do the mass edits, we'll be able to apply more trivially, if needed. Funky |
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Post by wollstonecraft on Jun 14, 2011 16:40:13 GMT
So, with max curse song and stat nerfs, legendary mobs suffer -11 to current AC? That's pretty significant.
Will post-legendary mobs also have stats nerfed? AFAIK, no legendary run has ever been cancelled because a bard didn't show.
How big of a reduction to Shunt should be expected? Will that reduction affect Silks of the Iridescent too?
Thanks for including us in the update update, Funky.
-WSCraft
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Post by CataclysmicDeath on Jun 14, 2011 16:49:46 GMT
One goal here are to make party formation easier, by reducing reliance on bards. Funky Not complaining about the nerf to song, but I can't see how this change will reduce the reliance we see on bards. I'm one of the few people on this server who agree that bards are nice to have but would definitely try any run currently in game without one. And it isn't the song/curse that makes them necessary, it's their epics, specifically HMR and UUU. I know I'm sounding very negative here and it's not even been put in place yet but I have serious doubts as to the effectiveness of rebalancing song on reducing end game runs reliance on bards. Cata |
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Post by wollstonecraft on Jun 14, 2011 17:44:55 GMT
From a previous thread on the subject: Unfortunately, nerfing UUU, which is the real fix to the issue, would make runs harder, something we're trying to avoid. So, for the time being, we're left with half measures. One thing in the works is adding Ride/40 to ability checks (noted on the paragon sheet, actually). Other things, like strengthening bard-replacers, are still up for grabs. Improving the PDK pickup is one likely candidate, though there are a number. Funky |
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Post by CataclysmicDeath on Jun 14, 2011 18:15:27 GMT
Yeah I know As I said, wasn't complaining about the bardson nerf. Just expressing me doubts as to it fixing the issue with bards being 'required'. Hopefully some of the other things in the works will help. Cata |
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Post by pete on Jun 14, 2011 18:30:13 GMT
i like it my only concern, you mention hell pens being lowered, will this include the penalty to AC and AB, as a bardsong is important in overcoming these (and saves to a lesser extent). |
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Post by jonuhey on Jun 14, 2011 18:33:21 GMT
I think only bard song/cursed should be changed for now. As of now (before any nerf) Its totally possible to do a run without a cleric as far as battletide goes. Same thing goes to RDD aura, Eyebite, banshee and everything else that lower saves. I would say that even without a bard that didnt get curse song as a feat it would still be possible to do any run in hells/abyss. So at this moment I think that the only change that should be made is lowering bard curse/song and also nerfing monsters/hells penalties so that they stay *equivalent*. Also Im concerned about how hells penalties and shunt will happen. Remember that this will be a somehow a nerf to all GRed toons (mostly casters), as unlike others stay the entire run under GR (if the cleric is skilled at giving them that is), lowering shunt would mean lowering their immunities by X. Well, its not that big deal, but just mentioning it just in case  |
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jun 14, 2011 18:52:31 GMT
i like it my only concern, you mention hell pens being lowered, will this include the penalty to AC and AB, as a bardsong is important in overcoming these (and saves to a lesser extent). No, it won't - reread my post. The only hells pens being lowered are vulnerabilities, and that's to offset shunt reduction, not song. Funky |
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Post by hjshotgun on Jun 14, 2011 19:26:44 GMT
I have to agree with gand on this one B tide will be OP if it stays the same. Even with out the change to NPC saves my cleric can still insta kill a lot of stuff with just B. tide and prayer. Looks like that new computer is getting put to use |
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