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Post by magecat on Oct 1, 2013 13:50:50 GMT
As to rationality, you've already concluded that I am a conspiracy theorist, paranoid and horridly immature (which last, under certain circumstances, I'll concede), so why worry about it; I certainly don't. [/sarcasm]
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Post by tank on Oct 1, 2013 13:52:09 GMT
forum name: magecat coming to a forum near you!
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Post by arek on Oct 1, 2013 14:30:03 GMT
Bad doesn't really need a defense. He's putting things up for sale and people are buying them. Your criticism of his behavior implicitly assumes that information - in this case, knowledge of where to find the items in question - is free. While this is a common misconception, it just isn't the case. Finding these items has an opportunity cost associated with it; never mind the actual time spent running and fetching said item even if you do know where it is. Of course, people aren't always rational, which is why we HAVE added some 'stoopid checks' to what can be sold - don't misread this as a wholehearted defense of free market econ - I'm a well-regulated market kind of guy. Fortunately, however, our markets are already proof against a lot of the things that require regulation in the real world - like insider trading. Funky Instead of assuming that I subscribe to malicious motives and freeloading, you might consider that providing those early "secrets" to new players gratis encourages them to hang around by taking the time to invest in them.After all, we have an entire channel in game devorted to the concept. Guru-ism tends to make them leave because it is percieved as arrogance and exclusionary behavior. Additionally, this ties into recent arguments regarding capability because, if they don't have the gear and they cannot yet afford to purchase it, the "newbies" end up riding the coat tails of the established players. Sheath of Stealth is an early buff for many characters, empowering them to perform better without relying on someone else. It is one such example. Yes, you can argue that a "gimme" mentality could develop from this, but I am not suggesting that every secret be provided to every new player. You're forgetting something magecat: Most of the customers that bad had for these items were vets who, one would assume, already knew how to get them and simply didn't want to be bothered with taking the time required to get them (which is actually fairly significant for Sheaths). --Arek
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Post by magecat on Oct 1, 2013 15:42:20 GMT
What, maybe 5 minutes time for anyone with a Hero crystal and Greater Sanctuary?
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Post by FunkySwerve on Oct 1, 2013 15:52:42 GMT
Instead of assuming that I subscribe to malicious motives and freeloading, What on earth are you talking about? My post didn't assume anything; it merely pointed out that your critique of Bad was seriously misplaced, and offered an economic analysis of the situation. I certainly didn't attribute any motives to you, malicious or otherwise, and I have no earthly clue where you got 'freeloading' from. If I WERE to attribute motives to you, it'd look like this: you seem to be going out of your way to bash Bad, and assuming bad faith on my part, reading things into my words that simply aren't there. I WONDER WHY THAT IS. 0_0 0_0 0_0 Subtle, no? I thought so as well. Bears a striking similarity to your post, no? Hmm. I'm short on time, so I'll be brief. You're still failing to understand the nature of the exchange. You are more than welcome to give away all the secrets you like. You've no doubt accrued lots of information during your time here, and are free to do with it as you like (so long as you spoiler-block it if you're posting it on the forums). The thing of it is, despite all those people possessing all that information, there's still demand for the products on the market. You can argue till you're blue in the face about what vile consequences might ensure, but you should realize two things: 1) those arguments are paternalistic, and 2) the problems you're arguing about have their roots elsewhere. If anything, the market is a good way to diagnose problems, not the problem itself. Funky
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Post by tomaan on Oct 1, 2013 16:01:12 GMT
I'm a vet and I bought quite a few Black Market items....not because they were difficult to get, but because I needed them. Go figure That said, I think it's fair to set a limit on the number of items sold to conserve server resources and to allow more individual sellers into the bazaar -- whether that's Bad, Magecat, or anybody else. As for the quality of the items sold, the market will determine if they are "junk" or not.
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Post by arek on Oct 1, 2013 16:02:25 GMT
Heh, that's not a location I'm aware of, tho I did know there were a few. In any case, I'd have to log in a toon with GS (or better still GV) to go get the Sheath, then transfer it to the character that needs it. If I'm wanting a Sheath, chances are I'm already on some lowbie that needs it, and possibly even in a party. Do I really want to stop tagging/questing to go fetch a sheath on a different toon and come back? Not really. Definitely not if I can just buy one cheap in the 4sale chest.
--Arek
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Post by Mudeye on Oct 1, 2013 16:03:06 GMT
There are a lot of high priced junk items in there, like boots of speed for 15Million. It's hard to reach level 20 without finding a couple of pairs. But I would have assumed that if nobody wanted them then they wouldn't buy them.
An issue that I think might be looked at is that there is a huge gulf between the haves and the have nots. If anyone is buying the overpriced junk items it surely isn't a newbie. A newbie isn't going to have 15 Million gold to spend on a piece of junk.
It would be nice to have a place to market leveling items that new players can use. The shops sell some but there are lots of things that players could sell too. Also, a way to determine the shop value of an item in the market. How much would an item sell for at the mass seller or in a shop. That would let new people have at least some inkling of when they are getting a good or bad deal in the market.
Finally, why is there only a single chest? Maybe there could be another chest or two instead of just the one. It hardly seems like a market. Maybe add a kiosk and some sneaky salesman npc there.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Oct 1, 2013 16:10:27 GMT
As to rationality, you've already concluded that I am a conspiracy theorist, paranoid and horridly immature (which last, under certain circumstances, I'll concede), so why worry about it; I certainly don't. [/sarcasm] Pursuit of rational self-interest is one of the underlying assumptions of a market economy, and one that is frequently violated - hard drug use is an often-referenced example of this (and addiction generally). It was that caveat that I was referring to. I wasn't making a personal dig at you or anyone else in this thread. If I were, it would look like this: clearly, based on the above quote, I have utterly no grounds for thinking you are paranoid. Not even remotely. None. At all. Funky
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Post by Torin on Oct 1, 2013 16:38:49 GMT
Maybe add a kiosk and some sneaky salesman npc there. Are you talking about the stranger named Knight Errant Darkest Knight who always stands there?
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Post by Sapphire [SL] on Oct 1, 2013 17:12:18 GMT
Am becoming a little bit annoyed this thread is turning to an argument that isn't anything to do with the original theme... Think time is called for this thread to be locked out a remedy being sort and has been determined by Funky lets leave it at that and take the arguments elsewhere please...
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Post by magecat on Oct 1, 2013 17:26:39 GMT
Instead of assuming that I subscribe to malicious motives and freeloading, What on earth are you talking about? My post didn't assume anything; it merely pointed out that your critique of Bad was seriously misplaced, and offered an economic analysis of the situation. I certainly didn't attribute any motives to you, malicious or otherwise, and I have no earthly clue where you got 'freeloading' from. If I WERE to attribute motives to you, it'd look like this: you seem to be going out of your way to bash Bad, and assuming bad faith on my part, reading things into my words that simply aren't there. I WONDER WHY THAT IS. 0_0 0_0 0_0 Subtle, no? I thought so as well. Bears a striking similarity to your post, no? It bears a striking similarity to a great many posts, most of them not mine. As to my assumptions, mayhaps it has something to do with the way that you entered the conversation and our previous history. After all, there is a great deal of one side or the other insisting that they KNOW what the other was thinking or meant in spite of postings to the contrary. I think you are lonely and need someone that will fight back, a frenemy as it were. I point out that you rarely go after other people that express my views with such vigor. It's actually rather flattering in a way. Gods, I can't believe I typed that with a straight face.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Oct 1, 2013 17:56:06 GMT
What on earth are you talking about? My post didn't assume anything; it merely pointed out that your critique of Bad was seriously misplaced, and offered an economic analysis of the situation. I certainly didn't attribute any motives to you, malicious or otherwise, and I have no earthly clue where you got 'freeloading' from. If I WERE to attribute motives to you, it'd look like this: you seem to be going out of your way to bash Bad, and assuming bad faith on my part, reading things into my words that simply aren't there. I WONDER WHY THAT IS. 0_0 0_0 0_0 Subtle, no? I thought so as well. Bears a striking similarity to your post, no? It bears a striking similarity to a great many posts, most of them not mine. As to my assumptions, mayhaps it has something to do with the way that you entered the conversation and our previous history. After all, there is a great deal of one side or the other insisting that they KNOW what the other was thinking or meant in spite of postings to the contrary. I think you are lonely and need someone that will fight back, a frenemy as it were. I point out that you rarely go after other people that express my views with such vigor. It's actually rather flattering in a way. Gods, I can't believe I typed that with a straight face. I'm sort of still astonished that you're able to type. In any event, I only have so much time to cater to crazy per day, and Sapphire is right - this thread needs to remain on-topic. Further inane trolling will be deleted. Feel free to pelt my inbox, if you like. Funky
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Post by Werehound Silverfang on Oct 1, 2013 21:38:24 GMT
On topic:
I asked about removing the limit-per-person before the change was made. I was deferred to Golem, because he had a fuller knowledge of the market system at the time. After talking to Golem, he said as long as I was leaving the original limit in place, it should be fine (due to bugs that can arise in any number of situations). I forgot to update the sign (though I swear I'd done it; maybe not palette sign). The restriction was always 200 items. It's not new.
Before the change, there was usually around 60 items in the market at any time (due to declining player base). Immediately after, I hadn't seen less than 110 items.
Then the number rose near the 200 mark on Server 111. And it became a problem, because some people dominated the largest portion of that number.
And now the largest contributor says he's pulling out. It seems that alone will solve the majority of the issues until more players enter the market to sell things. Re-introducing the cap influences so few players, and seems to me unnecessary; especially since the market chest never actually hit 200 items.
My 2-cents, worth 2-cents or not.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Oct 1, 2013 22:00:16 GMT
Just to be clear, Were, I wasn't having a go at you with the 'half-assery' - as I note, part of that was my own doing, as well. It's just the sign in-area, no palettes involved. Funky
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