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Post by ZeroGravitySE on Mar 31, 2006 0:43:19 GMT
Nice to have some input from a druid fan! That said, what wasnt helpful was reprinting the entire list of spell changes only to put 'very nice' or 'w/e' or 'waste' next to most of them. We're looking only for suggested changes, not editorials. I DID alter Greater Magic Fang based on your remarks, however - the error in the stadard spell description caused me to miss it in thje first run of spell changes. I think if you keep looking you'll find uses for some of the spells you are currently dismissing. Please feel free to make more suggested changes as you did with a few of the above spells, and please feel free to comment on spells we haven't already altered. Best, Funky I promise to write out a entire, proper spell by spell discusion soon. I don't know if I should start a new thread for it because I know it will be very long. But I'm a huge fan of druid. So I plan on sticking with my char till 60, I have it all written out what epic focus I want in legend levels. I noticed people talking about Drown. Undead (Which there is a whole bunch of everywhere) and contructs are immuned, that does make sence. Also as a spell caster I want the most effective spells on my casting bar when I head into combat. So the main focus of my atks aren't going to be single atk chance hits. Why? Because as my head is getting smashed in last thing I need is a gamble on my spell. It just seems to risky to use. Quilfire, is also a close range spell, everyone forgets that. Magic missle can be launched from the full screen away! I have to walk thru probly 2-3 missle storms before I even cast a quilfire.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Mar 31, 2006 5:03:21 GMT
I don't know if I should start a new thread for it because I know it will be very long. Please. Like I said, this thread is for suggestions, not descriptions, discussions, or what-have-you. Stick to discussing the spells you have suggestions for, and you'll have a better chance of getting some of your suggestions implemented. Funky
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Post by Phantanya on Mar 31, 2006 17:05:24 GMT
Wheeee...I love playing druid but she tends to get squished a lot and I end up feeling kinda usless in the LL areas. ok... my suggestions.. add gust of wind to the druid spell book.....wind...nature...kinda a no brainer.Dont know why bioware didnt include this spell with druids. Gust of wind...weather druid mage or bard should do damage to creatures made of sand or gasses. kinda hard to keep cohesive when your being blown to bits. I would make the damage magical and scaled to lvl. I would not start this damage until after LL as gust is such a low lvl spell. ( I love gust) The stats on elemental shifted forms make them all but useless. Sorry. At legendary lvls perhaps all the elemental shapes could get a pulse attack of some kind. The water and the air each have one(the drown attack on the water elemental form drowns yourself by the way) Perhaps a quake pulse for the earth elemental and a divine pulse from the fire elemental. If you wanted to do something totally off the wall...for LL you could change the elemental forms all together. Radiance for Fire---- divine pulse attack Toxic for water--natures balance pulse(tweek this to do appropriat stat damage) coal for earth--drown type pulse attack...(big puff of black lung) vaccum for air--mega gust type attack
Peace, Phantanya
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Post by sabregirl on Mar 31, 2006 17:19:11 GMT
I agree in this regard. I think druids and shifters are underpowered. I have both and hardly ever play them. I wouldn't say shifters are underpowered, epscially in legendary levels. The problem is staying ALIVE long enough to use that power. Basically shifters and druids in shifted form have a deficit in AC, and in a server where AC seems to be of primary importance this is somethign of a problem. Shifters are better off in this regard as several of the forms have ranged attacks like Manticore, Death Slaad and Dragon. Allowing the player to behave like a mage and stand back and blast things while true tanks take care of the rest. Unfortunately a lot of powerful things resist manticore spikes and Death slaad is one target only so very often it becomes dragon form or nothing. Ocasionally you'll run into things that can be turned to stone or stunned with mind blast (which is always fun) and you can run support that way but this doesn't happen too often. The problem for druids is their forms have even worse AC than shifter forms and they are basically ALL melee forcing you to be in the enemy's face if you want to shift. And the one ranged attack you get - drown on the water elemental damages only yourself! The real problem is most melee forms generally have horrible AC - both druids and shifters - to the point that they are basically unusable in most of the higher level areas. My well equipped monk shifter has 85 AC in Kobold form - she can dish out great damage but then dies in a hit or two from a guardian or demon. Even worse AC for the Risen Lord, Azer chieftan and Minotaur which presumably should be reasonably decent fighters. I think Dragon form for both classes is probably sufficiently good but it's nearly the only useful form after a while. Basically Dragon form for the "rif raff" or Death Slaad for a boss. And heaven help you if you get in a confined space where you can't use dragon form - the Drow slums/early Loth areas are just plain torture at pretty well any level of shifter. The "epic" humanoid forms simply don't have the AC to survive long enough to do much of anything. Even though your shifted AB continues to go up in LL for both druids and shifters (thanks much for that BTW) AND the creature weapon specialization which is also awesome, it doesn't really matter when you're dead on the ground. Also if a shifter player is NOT a monk their AC seems to be absolutely abysmal (it could be somewhat different at higher levels but it's been VERY hard to get there). I've been testing out a Rogue shifter and even with the best equipment available to her at level 18, her AC in Kobold commando form (the best AC of any of them) is only 42. Maybe just a little bump in AC for some of the "lesser" forms so that the lvl 40+ shifter/Druid isn't in a bascially Dragon or die situation? Maybe similar to the AB boost in LL? Or if you're worried about balance, maybe skip the weapon specialization and give more AC - staying alive is more important than dishing out damage . . . Maybe for druid forms in addition to an AC boost, the air elemental's wind attack could be improved and the water elemental's drown could actually function properly? -S
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Post by ZeroGravitySE on Mar 31, 2006 18:01:13 GMT
Dragon Angel's Suggestions On Druid Spells
I thought it over, and here are all my suggestions, based on knowing the other class's and how there played vs my druid. I work alot so I typed this out fast, please excuse the bad grammar and the spelling errors. =/ I'm trying to write this out so not only the DM's understand what I'm saying but everyone. Most these ideas also are from the PVM perspective because of the legendary levels things get real hard after 40+. So if you don't have a solid character by then u tend to be the first to die in every group, which stinks. Also sometimes when I speak about resistance, I might mean saves also.
Level-1 Spells --------------- Camouflage (Druid/Ranger) - (Gives +10hide) I would think if your a pure druid/ranger that this spell bonus would go to 30-50 more hide @ lvl 40.
Entangle (Druid/Ranger) - This is a great spell but it gets resisted alot. Maybe make it useful again after 40+?
Level-2 Spells --------------- Barkskin (Druid) - This caps out at +9, but the best u can get I've seen is +15 off a item. So Why not make it +15 after @40? Its a druid only spell? This would make the druid a more helpful class when it comes to grouping.
Blood Frenzy (Druid) - This is druid only and would be helpful for shifters more. As a pure casting druid the last thing I want to do is shift so I have to reslot all my spells again.
Charm Person or Animal (Druid) - This spell will always be a waste in my eyes, for this server. So if you can somehow change or alter the entire thing it would be great. How about adding something that gives charisma and wis as a buff? This way at lower levels u have a little help?
Flame Lash (Druid) - This spell takes forever to cast, and its pure fire dmg. Which means u have to know if your target is immune to fire or not. Which means this spell is useless underwater. Which also means that the dmg on it makes the spell totally not useful. It hits for less than quilfire, and most the time it doesn't hit at all.
Hold Animal (Druid/Ranger) - This would be great if it was like bigby's hand? The holding spell that just stops it all. Kills epic reflex saves? That would be extremely helpful.
One with the Land (Druid/Ranger)- Teleports me to a safe spot? I find this useless since most my battles are indoors. If I was to be one with land I would think that I would get a concealment bonus of sometype? Maybe just a +10-20% concealment for self only?
Level-3 Spells --------------- Call Lightning (Druid) - The save on this for reflex is insane? How do you DODGE lightning when it hits as fast as light speed? I don't understand that. Call lightning is the spell that places druids on the map for dmg. I can hit for with empowered lightning and the bonus dmg they added (40d6)x1.5= 200-250dmg around there. That is a really really nice spell if it lands. And it hits alot of targets. But it destroys loot! So you gotta know your range, or be prepared to explain yourself to your group.
Dominate Animal (Druid) - With animal empathy being demanded so high this spell is pretty much a waste. So I suggest that the spell just be a buff for the pets. Maybe give the pets a bonus to there ac somehow?
Greater Magic Fang (Druid/Ranger) - All the spell needs is to be able to cast it on all my pets.
Healing Sting (Druid) - This spell is terrible since I have to walk in get smacked around while casting and hope it hits for 80dmg? I don't know what to say about the spell other then I don't ever see a use for it, since finger of death has a chance to kill and does 140 compared to the 86 dmg this does. Infestation of Maggots (Druid) - Bards have a debuff spell, and its a song! So why not have a infestation of maggots ripping at people's eyes and tearing there stats down? I think this spell should be a debuff cloud, where they make spell resist save only, and it cuts right into there str, con, dex. 1d10 @ lvl20, 1d20 @ lvl40? But last only 3 rounds?
Quillfire (Druid) - this spell hits for around 80-95, its the only spell in the druid handbook that you can rely on to hit almost all the time. With this is mind you now know even with changes to the other spells this still is a very useful spell. Only problem is its close combat, your always in those debuff circles. Shifters get to change into a form that constantly allows them to use something like mine. It also lands for around the same dmg. THEY GET UNLIMITED?! I suggest atleast doubling the dmg to this spell to make it alot more effective. Same dmg finger of death would do basically. Around 140-160. Spike Growth (Druid) - It only does 1d4 spike dmg? With server changes 2d4? This spell doesn't really do anything since its always resist. The spike dmg is a joke for a druid only spell. I've used this spell a bunch of times with barely any result in most areas. I suggest changing the entire thing to something like a druid only regeneration spell? Something like +25 regen for 4mins? 40rounds? Of course it gets better over time. So it starts as lvl10, +6, lvl20, +10, lvl30, +15, lvl40, +25. This would be a druid only regeneration spell making this alot more useful when the spells are running dry. OR WAIT, I just thought of a group buff regeneration? Druid only? That would be really cool!
Level-4 Spells --------------- Freedom of Movement (Cleric, Druid, Paladin, Ranger) - The problem with this spell is its shared, in most games druids have the best movement buffs.
Mass Camouflage (Druid/Ranger) - This spell would be great if it lasted longer. I suggest doubling the round length to x2 rounds.
Level-5 Spells --------------- Awaken (Druid) - This spell helps a great deal, but can u add dex to the buff to? So it can add some defense to my pets? Inferno (Druid) - Ignites target dealing 6d6 of fire dmg? over 40 rounds? So empower inferno does 36x1.5=MAX54dmg per round. Which isn't that bad. But you have to be close to cast the spell, and there are other spells that I'd rather have slotted, so to make this really effective how about making it or adding postitive dmg instead?
Vine Mine (Druid) - Allows casting of Entangle, Hamper movement, or Camouflage? Why, Why, Why? Vine Mine is a free spell slot to mess with. So Maybe make this the AE regeneration spell? Or how about a group buff of sometype that isn't epic and adds to there AB? Maybe +5?
Level-6 Spells --------------- Crumble (Druid) - 40d6 dmg is nice, but when u have a golem with 1000hp coming at you, it seems like u need 10 of these spells. I suggest making this spell 80d8, and having it be AE? But you have to be pure druid to reach that? It would effective PVP at all? Other then if someone casted a construct, but if they see a druid how dumb is that? Drown (Druid) - This spell is limited to almost nothing. Its not a all-around helpful spell in anyway other then if u use it against drow. Guess what though? They resist it big time. So why even bother when finger of death has a chance of death? I suggest that the spell be turned into the druid only run spell? Why even bother trying to add this in as a dmg spell? Stonehold (Druid) - This spell needs help on the resist end. I think it would be a great spell to see hold the drow, but it doesn't work, and it slows some peeps computers down if you spam it. Any spell that has a WILL save seems to be always resist. I'd say fortitude save, since your being held?
Level-7 Spells --------------- Aura of Vitality (Druid) - This spell would rock more but after 40 its kinda useless? Why not make it so it has +10dodge @40, and +12 on all stats? That would be a better group buff for those tuff area's.
Creeping Doom (Druid) - This spell starts off slow, it gets resisted alot, and it does really low dmg for a long period of time. So I don't know what to say other then those things need looking into, I know I read something about a change to this spell. I suggest that the spell just cut right thru any defense. Druids are known for there DOT spells. Damage over time, and with that in mind, this should be the best DOT spell in the game.
Level-8 Spells --------------- Bombardment (Druid) - This spell tends to destroy loot and has a huge range. 40d6 is a nice ammount of dmg, but I suggest 50d6, and changing the dmg type to something else. this should be one of the druids main atks! Nature's Balance (Druid) - Will negates this spell, and like I said with a will save almost everytime in any tuff area's its always resisted, making it not worth it. Mass heal works way better then this even though this knocks out spell resistance. There is a epic spell that does kinda the same thing but its not worth getting. This spell should be changed to no save. What I suggest is knocking down what it takes off on the spell resistance. It does @40, 1d4x8=32, it takes out 32 max, so cut that down to half which is 16, and double the healing power! That would make this spell really helpful for boss battles and other things alike. Putting the druid on the map!
Level-9 Spells --------------- Earthquake (9Druid/8Cleric) - Clerics get this too, so I suggest just leaving it alone. Changing the dmg type and reflex to fortitude will make it helpful, but the truth is u just made clerics better too. So I suggest that updating this spell isn't really helping the druid class.
Elemental Swarm (Druid) - This should be the epic druid spell, elemental swarm should be something really cool. I suggest if possible that this spell be allowed to summon 5 of those elementals, to fight by the druids side, but only for 2minutes, 20rounds? That would make the druid as a caster really, really, really fun to play, and I dont think overpower, there only 24HD creatures?
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Post by FunkySwerve on Mar 31, 2006 19:15:23 GMT
my suggestions.. add gust of wind to the druid spell We cant add spells without haks, only modify existing ones or put them on items. Funky
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Post by FunkySwerve on Mar 31, 2006 19:21:26 GMT
The problem for druids is their forms have even worse AC than shifter forms and they are basically ALL melee forcing you to be in the enemy's face if you want to shift. I know for a fact shifters can get up to around 125 in dragon form, higher in a party; that's dexer level ac. Their other forms linger behind but the lowest can get up to 111, higher in a party, and probably higher than that if I stopped to think. Druid dragons can actually get HIGHER ac than that, thanks to buffs - MUCH higher. Talk to some other shifter players on the server for some tips. We can easily increase ac by adding more armor absorbtions to forms, but I just don't see the need. Funky
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Post by Adjungbilly on Apr 1, 2006 2:25:50 GMT
Having played a druid here for a while, and a fair amount of times in PnP. I find that the cap at +9 for Barkskin odd It should be up to +15. Also the restriction on GMF to only your companion, odd. It should be castable on all of your pets. (perhaps restricted to animals, so as not to impinge on GMW) Quill fire is good, but the venom should be upgraded at epic, at the least.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Apr 1, 2006 4:34:57 GMT
GMF has already been changed. I'll have another look at barkskin, though the primary use I have for it is extra ac for my dragon formed druid - try it . Funky
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Post by Delfestra Ruinvorn on Apr 1, 2006 20:41:23 GMT
OK, earlier today while making a fool out of myself not once but twice, I was going through the Wiz/Sorc spell alterations when some things occurred to me - namely things that haven't been altered and/or are not used. So I will cut/paste and add others here for though/comment/consideration:
Spell Mantle - the level 7 one. Lesser and greater spell mantle have altered absorbtion progressions, but not spell mantle. Could it be altered it in the same way with a standard absorbtion bonus by levels so that casters have a choice to use 7th or 9th depending on what they fight in higher areas. This will also help sorcerers who likely will have to choose between them.
Power Word Kill: No one uses it. Most things have more than 120 hps. Book doesn't have its HP/HD effectiveness increased. Please increase it for balance purposes in a way similar to Power Word Stun, so it can be useful past 20.
Weird: No one uses it. Probably because it needs two saves to break, and mind immune monsters are totally immune I THINK. Even with Epic Illusion all over the place for arcane casters, people still take Wail every time. Issue?
Flesh to Stone: I've never seen anyone use it. Ever. I'd argue to raise its DC further in a balanced way to reflect monster saves. Its a level 6 spell, and most things have saves too high for that to realistically work, and other things are flat out immune to level 6 and below...so you wouldn't see people petrifying Dachy.
Gust of Wind - Increase the DC by 5 for every 5 levels over 20? Or every 10? Its current use is only to blow away abyss-flame and glabrezu grease. It'd be actually useful at higher levels then. Especially for someone who wants/needs a Knockdown attack type and can't/didn't take Thunderstrike (Sorc)
Phantasmal Killer - Requires beating two saves to be effective. I've never used it. Perhaps altering the DC progressively could give this poor spell purpose again?
Evarrd's black tentacles - I've never used it. I can't think of a functional use for it that makes it combat effective.
Magic Missle - Everybody's favorite. Low level magic damage. Ice dagger, Hortizol's Boom, and Neg energy ray all are enhanced after 21, but not good old Magic Missle. Any reason why that is?
Come to think of it, neither is Burning Hands. Could that be bumped the same way that the others of that level are? Gains new life 21+?
Submitted for consideration.
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Post by Balduvard on Apr 1, 2006 20:50:57 GMT
Silly Delf, you've done it again. This is the thread you are looking for.
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Post by Phantanya on Apr 1, 2006 23:03:31 GMT
This is my wish list only. Most would be bumped up only after reaching a certain lvl or skill point benchmark. Shield of Faith- past lvl 20 make it stack with whatever its cast on. Entropic Shield- bump it up 10% after lvl 20 Sound burst- up the damage and dc...I love this spell. Bestow curse- up the dc and make it effect multiple targets. Inflict wounds (any kind) add heal skill points x2 added to the damage Invisibility purge- dispells concealment effects (muahahahahah) Protect from Elements- add exotic damage to the list of elements Spell resist- have it stack with existing spell resist Blade barrier- increase the dc and add movement of speed decrease Energy drain- Regenerate in reverse...in incriments of 1d10 (like the wounding effect) Sleep-bring it back from the grave. Make it effective against stronger monsters. Have sonic damage wake the victem. Wall of fire(stone) make it bigger. it wont block a standard hallway. Better still change it back to normal Energy buffer- adds exotic damage resistance, stacks with gear. Wounding wispers-double the damage Bards lvl 6 summon- Summons a Vorpal sword..a mean one. Clairvoyance-change it to same thing as premonition. Ghoul touch- take away the touch attack penelty. No mage can hit anything but the lowest creature with a touch attack. Evards black tentacles- increase dc and damage, make damage negative or positive Tasha's laughter- increase the dc and have ac penelized even with a sucessful save Circle of Death-Increase the creature lvl and have sucessful saves still take 4d10 + heal skill points of damage. Protect from spells-stacks Weird- raise the dc and lose save leaving only spell resist(make it work on spawn) Phantasmal Killer-raise dc and lose save and leave only spell resist(make it work on spawn) Elemental shield - add positive damage and positive and divine resist. Like I said this is just a rough wish list. I would like to see skill points added to more spell damage and or dc. Such as adding your points in heal to damage for inflict wounds. Adding concentration skill points to dc for wierd or other mind spells. I like the idea of rewarding folks for investing thier points into a certain skill. Peace, Phantanya
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Post by FunkySwerve on Apr 2, 2006 18:53:47 GMT
Locking this thread. New threads for suggestions have been opened in the Class Changes forum, where they will belong. Hopefully those threads are a little less confusing to people trying to help out. Funky
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